Peter Schiff Gold Vs Max Keiser Bitcoin

CampeadorCampeador Posts: 201 Bronze ✭✭✭
On this case... My money is on Schiff (pun intended).

My take is, Max is in the right direction but his line of thinking is a "Bit" flaw. I believe his hype is set on the Decentralization approach. Schiff is on the store of value. However, how come they do call a truce and agree that Crypto is the vehicle to transact and Gold is the store of value.

On this round, Schiff is correct, nobody transact on Gold or Crypto; is on Centralize Fiat Currency as the "Unit of Measurement". What Cryptos are is another Fiat Currency but digitized. Decentralization and Portability are the Golden key elements on Cryptos; Gold is Decentralize and Physical Store of Value.

I say, quit pulling on who is right; pair them both for a Central Bank killer.


Comments

  • GMONEY1GMONEY1 Posts: 415 Silver ✭✭✭✭
    I explained Bitcoin to my mother in law yesterday and she said 2 things that stuck out to me:
    -"that's still around?! That's a ponzi"
    -"it's just air... that doesn't make sense"

    A question I always ask myself about Bitcoin or cryptos is:
    -if btc were $0 tomorrow would I be surprised? (No... so that kills the store of wealth and "money" argument for me... rather it is a speculative asset with no intrinsic value)

    Aside from those points, Bitcoin just feels like a vehicle for tax evasion, and that bothers me. There needs to be a fair system, medium of exchange, unit of account, and store of wealth. Currently, with fiat and even with Bitcoin it is not fair (some report, some don't).

    I agree with @Campeador though; these guys need to realize they are on the same team -- sound money.

    I personally don't think Bitcoin is sound money, but if others do and they are following the rules, laws, and reporting and security regs, then so be it...I'll choose gold/silver, they choose btc and we move on.

    I do think that gold (and silver) have an integral role to play in a sound money system, so based on that, my views most closely align with Peter.
  • tomartotomarto Posts: 102 Copper ✭✭
    Important ........
    Bitcoin is outside the banking system [ which we know is bankrupt]
    Bitcoin cannotbe printed like fiat [devalued by goverments ]

    These 2 qualities are the attraction ,.

    Agree ;
    don't think Bitcoin is sound money,



  • GMONEY1GMONEY1 Posts: 415 Silver ✭✭✭✭
    Bitcoin IS outside the banking system, and it is also currently outside the regulatory system.

    Bitcoin can't be printed per se, but as we've seen with Bitcoin Cash, forks, ICOs, and new cryptos ...proxies for "printing", inflation, and dilution still exist for cryptos.

    They are VERY risky spec assets.
  • CampeadorCampeador Posts: 201 Bronze ✭✭✭
    We do not need tax. Before 1913 the Fed Gov did no claimed any Federal Tax. Taxatiom started with the Fed Res Act in 1913. When open to taxtion is crow bar for Pork Barrel Projects. All it does is create a bloated inefficient Gov Co.

    The Gov can be funded via Tariffs.

    If they want to go with the Tax route. Right now what is need it is a Wealth Tax, not an Income Tax. Also, the laws should be written for the average person to understand and simple. In the USA we have such a convoluted and at some point, contradictory laws. Is such a mess that we need "Lawyers" to decifer the mess. People need to remember, laws are written by Lawyers for Lawyers; not for the people.

    As you can see... I hate Lawyers with passion; they are nothing more than leeches.
  • TexTex Posts: 197 Bronze ✭✭✭
    Cryptos are interesting and I really enjoy watching the debate on what money is.




    History is full of wisdom.
  • CampeadorCampeador Posts: 201 Bronze ✭✭✭
    Coincidence or a Copycat? Is that what I just said with different words?

    How funny !

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-08-08/peter-gold-schiff-vs-max-bitcoin-keiser-are-bitcoins-new-beaver-pelts

    "As noted in my clip, I think Schiff is on the right side of the debate. This is my take:

    Bitcoins are the new beaver pelts of monetary transactions. For thousands of years, when available by free choice, gold has always been the currency of demand. Things like salt, cigarettes, beaver pelts, and recently Bitcoin, come and go.The scarcity of gold is real. The scarcity of Bitcoin is artificial. It depends on trust that a human-based promise to mine more coins will be limited.In a currency crisis, liquidity crunch, or stock market collapse, where would you rather be? If you choose Bitcoin over gold, you are not thinking clearly. You are dreaming.Blockchain does not scale. Imagine the entire history of every transaction of any size, any place in the world, recorded on a distributed network.Despite the hype, no one would use Bitcoin to buy a candy bar. or even a meal at McDonald’s. One might easily do that with Bitgold. Transaction costs are the difference.Absurd proclamations and theories about the value of Bitcoin are now commonplace. This is typical of any bubble."
  • AnacapAnacap Posts: 91 Copper ✭✭
    "Aside from those points, Bitcoin just feels like a vehicle for tax evasion, and that bothers me. There needs to be a fair system, medium of exchange, unit of account, and store of wealth. Currently, with fiat and even with Bitcoin it is not fair (some report, some don't)."

    That's actually the main positive value of Bitcoin. It's a technology that creates freedom to manage wealth in form of BTC.

    Gold owners can be targeted by socialdemocracies, as it has happened so many times in history, in aim to expropiate all that wealth when the economy collapses.

    You can keep things truly private on bitcoin.

    You can discuss about the best market timming to hold BTC, and the risks of doing it right now. But that's it.

    If you think BTC is ridiculously overvalued you should be taking a close look at Amazon, Tesla or Netflix.
    BTC is like investing in tech startups. It's speculative and risky. Yes. But at least you know its fundamentals, ignoring the price, are awsome.

    Gold is the best money we have out there, right now. That's about it.

    BTW, I recently found out platinium fundamentals (scarcity/density and therefore technical costs of securing it/moving it around) are sighly better than gold, but its "network worth" is far behind, so it might not even come ahead.
  • GMONEY1GMONEY1 Posts: 415 Silver ✭✭✭✭
    just a friendly reminder @Anacap ...
    Tax evasion is a felony (in the US.. up to 5 yrs in prison).

    The argument that bitcoin's main value proposition is tax evasion supports my decision for not participating.

    Tax avoidance is different (including deferrals, jurisdiction, trusts, etc); an entity does it legally.

    Without laws, regs, precedent, and enforcement it could be argued that Bitcoin is in the gray area between evasion and avoidance, but that's too much risk and uncertainty for me. Good luck
  • CampeadorCampeador Posts: 201 Bronze ✭✭✭
    edited August 9
    The USA was founded by people running away from Bankers and Taxation. Why even discussing the root cause of all?

    I say, screw taxation, screw banks.

    I am a true believer of small government is the way to go.

    Taxation... is a "legal" form of robbery.

    "You can't get rich in politics unless you're a crook."

    http://www.jsmineset.com/wp-content/uploads/images/In-The-News-Today_9A9F/clip_image002.jpg
  • UvasUvas Posts: 659 Silver ✭✭✭✭
    Cash money is also a vehicle for tax evasion, we best get rid of cash....
  • RocketDogRocketDog Posts: 464 Bronze ✭✭✭
    I kind of agree with everyone a bit. I prefer small government and feel that excessive taxation just allows the monster government to grow larger and more powerful to suppress us more. I don't mind paying my share of taxes but I do not believe they should be collected in such a manner that the government needs me to report or needs to monitor so many of my monetary transactions. What I do with my money should be nobody's business but mine. And the fact that some people choose to commit crime or evade taxes with cash or cryptocurrency is not justification to prevent the rest of us from using it. We really need to focus ways of funding the government that preferably reduces it in size and does not invade personal freedoms and personal privacy. I think we as citizens have rolled over way too far and put up with way too much bullying from the government and we are not nearly as free as we think we are. I think cryptocurrencies are a reaction to the government's oppressive tactics and their habit of devaluing our money. And a lot of people just want to be out of the dollar, just like us on Goldmoney.
  • Marco_1983Marco_1983 Posts: 152 Bronze ✭✭✭
    Guys, the only thing that matters is what people use as a mean of transaction. If millions of people around the world recognize Bitcoin as currency, well, that is currency.

    I love Gold (and Silver even more). However, if not digitalized, they are only a store of value in todays world, and would never be a mean of transaction. If I from Italy want to buy something from a person in the US, I'm certainly NOT going to get on a plane with 100oz of silver in my backpack just to barter with the that person. And, I'm certainly NOT exchanging my metals for fiat either.

    We need digitalization for transactions. Gold and Silver are a great store of value long term (even though not that much in the last 5-6 years), but if they are not digitalized, they are worthless in todays transactions. That is why Goldmoney could change things with their gold and silver digitalized payments.

    The economic world needs less bureaucracy, smaller government, no central banking and, most importantly, faster transactions.

    Grandmothers will often say that the digital world is crazy or that people now days are dependent on their mobile phones, and they may be right, but what they do not realize is that with my mobile phone I could be transacting with a person form the other part of the world. Digitalization is key in todays world.

    Again, don't get me wrong, I love Gold and Silver. I understand them and I know their true value, and I am not a big fan of cryptos and never will be. However, say all you want, but 4k Bitcoin is definitely something that should be taken seriously, even by gold bugs.

    PMs and Cryptos are on the same team guys. Please stop using the "ponzi" "scam" "tulips" words and fight this battle with both swords for crying out loud.
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