Just a reminder

GoldmattersGoldmatters Posts: 4,068 Admin
US national debt:
$19,226,417,790,338.55 (+) #NationalDebt

Just saying.

Comments

  • zulu1520zulu1520 Posts: 294 Bronze ✭✭✭
    We can easily print $20 Trillion dollars (joke)
  • 79Au19779Au197 Posts: 4,047 Gold ✭✭✭✭✭
    This was back when it was ONLY $17 trillion



    @zulu1520 after watching the above, are you so sure? (Joke)
  • GoldmattersGoldmatters Posts: 4,068 Admin
    @zulu1520 @79Au197 not sure whether to laugh or cry?
  • NomidasNomidas Posts: 92 Copper ✭✭
    edited June 2016
    @ArtMatters @zulu1520

    They can even easily print a single
    $20 Trillion Dollar note - and even more than just one of such notes (NO joke) that has happened in the hyperinflation in Germany in the twenties of last Century!

    And to add a maybe even darker outlook the internal Chinese debt in Dollar terms:

    ca. $30 000 000 000 000,00 (+)

    http://www.mckinsey.com/global-themes/employment-and-growth/debt-and-not-much-deleveraging

    The danger here comes from the extremely poor quality of the collateral in China: empty wrotten skyscrapers in villages, very non competitive state industries etc.

    So soon a
    Yuan 50 000 000 000 000, 00 Note

    may become printed too?

    But on the other hand ...

    They are said to be clever:

    http://www.maxkeiser.com/tag/shanghai-gold-exchange/

    So let's be clever, too ;)
  • GoldmattersGoldmatters Posts: 4,068 Admin
    @Nomidas and what happens to the monetary base if $20 trillion note is printed??
  • NomidasNomidas Posts: 92 Copper ✭✭
    @ArtMatters

    the same what had happened to any monetary base in every hyperinflationary scenario in history for example in Germany in the last century: the monetary base will be gone. And a new currency will be introduced "Währungsreform" (currency reform).
    But I don't think this will happen this time, the 20 Billion Dollar Note was just kind of a joke following ZULU1520.

    But as it had been said b4: this time it is different.
    I suppose the Central Banks starting with the BoJ simply will take the very large part of the national debt they 'own' out of their book, i.e. shrink (!!) their balance sheet, which is of course massively anti inflationary, and due to the demography and relative wealth of the Japanese population such a hyperkeynesian act will even work at least one time. It would however NOT work in China, where it would soon lead to hyperinflation and even worse misallocation!
  • NomidasNomidas Posts: 92 Copper ✭✭
    @ArtMatters

    It is important to know that Central Banks are not anymore independent from the State, this became a perfect insider trade or business with oneself at least since the financial crisis of 2008.
  • GoldmattersGoldmatters Posts: 4,068 Admin
    @Nomidas So to summarize, what you are talking about it is a currency reset
  • rohanibuang61rohanibuang61 Posts: 2,379 Gold ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Artmatters fraud money
    @zulu1520 they can print as much they like till it become toilet paper
    @79Au197 Nice video
    @Nomidas Historic Weimar, Germany toilet paper is repeating and at its final stage
  • NomidasNomidas Posts: 92 Copper ✭✭
    edited June 2016
    @ArtMatters

    in the - "traditional"- hyperinflationary scenario: YES.

    in the second - unconventional - balance sheet shrinking scenario: NO, here the currency will stay the same. Such a scenario never had taken place before. But it makes some sense, it has also been discretely discussed. Only a few years ago that would have been regarded as kind of insane, it however requires a somehow post industrial society like the Japanese where already a large part of industrial labor becomes done by robots.
    In a sense in such a scenario the entire population would get a state pension or basic income - somewhat similar but not the same as a negative income tax - from the state and the state would let the needed money become printed by the Central Bank!
  • NomidasNomidas Posts: 92 Copper ✭✭
    @ArtMatters

    BTW the second scenario is not so different from the actual situation where the BoJ is the buyer of nearly all of Japanese State bonds with an interest rate of near Zero or even below.
    It really makes not so much of a difference to just cancel such debt entirely B)
  • GoldmattersGoldmatters Posts: 4,068 Admin
    @Nomidas How about a simultaneous devaluation of all currencies against gold
  • GoldmattersGoldmatters Posts: 4,068 Admin
    @rohanibuang61 fraud is the right word :)
  • NomidasNomidas Posts: 92 Copper ✭✭
    @ArtMatters

    The Japanese of course would prefer the balance sheet reduction, they have not much Gold.
    The US would try to defend the Dollar as World Reserve Currency that is much more beneficiary for the US than even the extreme increase of their - probably still - immense amount of Gold (8000 tons).
    Some European countries would probably benefit from a such an increase of the value of Gold but they have not much of a say in that and inconsistent preferences.

    I'm convinced the Chinese will try such an increase of the value of Gold one day, but despite their steady buying they still have by far not enough Gold to

    a) challenge the Dollar as World Reserve Currency, and

    b) introduce a Gold based Super Yuan as a New World Reserve Currency and

    c) simultaneously get rid of the worthless Yuan and use it only as internal Currency to further keep the rest of their 'dumb' population under the thumb!
  • NomidasNomidas Posts: 92 Copper ✭✭
    @ArtMatters

    as I've said before, it simply boils down to the question, if someone can corner the US, and when yes, who that is.

    There are exactly 2 candidates for that:

    1) prudent people who buy physical Gold, physically backed Gold ETFs, BitGold, GoldMoney, Bullion Vault etc. and

    2) China resp. the SGE

    There also may be some smaller Central Banks which will assist such an attempt probably rather involuntarily like the Bank of the Netherlands with her recent Gold purchase.

    Course the debased state of all fiat currencies including very much the Dollar there might be an event at any time that causes a sudden avalanche into Gold.

    And then: ....... it hopefuly will be over :o
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