Why does it take so long to verify my gold purchase?

Should I be concerned?

I'm told it can take up to 48 hours for my gold purchased with Bitcoin to be confirmed by the "Vault Custodian" in Dubai -- that made me wonder when I read that -- why in the world would it take so long to confirm? Is there a problem procuring the gold I've purchased? And who is this "Vault Custodian" guy anyway? And why has he not confirmed a gold purchase from over 50 hours ago?

Is it normal for emails to support to go unanswered? I was planning on recommending Goldmoney to my brother-in-law but now I'm beginning to wonder... How long has this company been around?

Answers

  • 79Au19779Au197 Posts: 4,047 Gold ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2016
    @WheresTheAU

    I take it that you have not read the Terms of Service? https://www.goldmoney.com/terms-of-service

    One should always read the Terms of Service B) (sorry, just being snarky)

    The vault custodian is BRINKS. The vault operates on a standard 8 hour day. Dubai is on the other side of the world from the US and Canada. So there is a built in time lag just based on time zones. Rest assured that your gold price is locked down at the time of deposit.

    If you used the email form ( http://support.goldmoney.com/customer/portal/emails/new ) you should have gotten an immediate (as in instantaneous) reply stating …



    If you did not get this, check your spam or junk mail folder. Please note:

    This email is to confirm that we have received your message and will be happy to respond as soon as possible! Due to a high influx of emails, our current response time is between 3-5 business days. Please rest assured that we are working diligently to resolve your case!

    If you receive nothing after 5 business days - double-check your spam or junk mail folder.

    @Melanie - can you add an anything to this - specific to the question raised by @WheresTheAU ?

    No need to be concerned.

    PS have you checked out https://www.goldmoney.com/newsroom/real-time-audit
  • UvasUvas Posts: 680 Silver ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2016
    It is basically the same process which clears a check in the banking system which usually takes 2-3 days.

    In the case of Goldmoney, included in that time is the purchasing and actual placing of real gold in the vault.

    I wouldn't be concerned. Being a cryptocurrency, bitcoin inherently carries more risk of fraud than a deposit from a verified bank account. Goldmoney has in place procedures to contain the fraud should any arise.
  • icemaniceman Posts: 20 Tin ✭
    I made a deposit yesterday in the Uk Paypal vault and it was confirmed almost instantly while a further deposit I made the day before in the Zurich vault is still pending after more than 48 hours. This is a question that I think needs explaining.
  • UvasUvas Posts: 680 Silver ✭✭✭✭
    DId you make both deposits with Paypal? And were they similar amounts?

    I have no answer for you, just curious too.
  • icemaniceman Posts: 20 Tin ✭
    The deposits were made from my UK bank account with the greater amount going to the Paypal vault.
  • 79Au19779Au197 Posts: 4,047 Gold ✭✭✭✭✭
    @iceman - I think this speaks to the transaction load on the Zürich vault
  • MurphyMurphy Posts: 98 Bronze ✭✭✭
    I've been waiting about 24 hours with a pending. Not worried since goldmoney does guarantee the price at the time of deposit. It is usually much faster though. Wondering if the extra time its taking has something to do with the big price moves lately?
  • icemaniceman Posts: 20 Tin ✭
    I have just made a redemption through my Paypal Vault and it was near instant, with the sum appearing in my PayPal account straight away and it was then available to transfer to my bank account instantly.
    I shall now use the Paypal Vault for any future deposits albeit with the reduced capabilities of the Paypal Vault.
  • 79Au19779Au197 Posts: 4,047 Gold ✭✭✭✭✭
    @iceman
    iceman said:

    I have just made a redemption through my Paypal Vault and it was near instant, with the sum appearing in my PayPal account straight away and it was then available to transfer to my bank account instantly.
    I shall now use the Paypal Vault for any future deposits albeit with the reduced capabilities of the Paypal Vault.

    What are the reduced capabilities of the Paypal Vault?
  • WheresTheAUWheresTheAU Posts: 10 Tin ✭
    79Au197 said:


    ...No need to be concerned.

    Coming up to three days now.

    I've familiar with crypto currencies...I know how long cryptos take to clear from an address and become buried irretrievably, many confirmations deep, forever associated to another address on a block chain. My BTC is confirmed forever gone for almost three days, but the gold is still not confirmed.

    The policy implies a limit of 48 hours. Coming up on 72 hours. This is a problem.

    This *IS* concerning, patronizing answers notwithstanding...
  • PowerlunchmoneyPowerlunchmoney Posts: 274 Bronze ✭✭✭
    Ensure you have properly linked your bank account, credit card etc. or whatever your means of funding your Goldmoney account is. Also keep in mind that weekends don't count towards your 48 hours! Very little happens on the weekend. Your bank shuts down so transactions can not be fulfilled. In fact @Goldmoney should probably change their 24-48 hour statement to say something like "up to two business days" or whatever. @melanie I know this was a misunderstanding for me in the beginning.
  • WheresTheAUWheresTheAU Posts: 10 Tin ✭
    edited October 2016

    Ensure you have properly linked your bank account, credit card etc. or whatever your means of funding your Goldmoney account is. Also keep in mind that weekends don't count towards your 48 hours! Very little happens on the weekend. Your bank shuts down so transactions can not be fulfilled. In fact @Goldmoney should probably change their 24-48 hour statement to say something like "up to two business days" or whatever. @melanie I know this was a misunderstanding for me in the beginning.

    Thanks Powerlunchmoney, but there's no bank account or credit card involved...nothing to link. I'm funding with crypto -- instant transfer, no waiting for some unknown banker to get to it. I press send and my money is on the block chain within seconds or minutes tops, generally allocated to the receiving address with three confirmations in half and hour or less (depending on the coin type). Allocated to an address that belongs to Goldmoney.

    So there's no question, Goldmoney has had my crypto for three business days now.
  • WheresTheAUWheresTheAU Posts: 10 Tin ✭
    edited October 2016
    79Au197 said:
    Thank you 79Au197 for the above helpful link. Believe it or not, I want this to be above-board and legitimate, but the link raises further questions... (see below please.)

    Here are the transactions I've made over the past few days:

    Oct 4, 2016 Dubai -- Gold Purchase (Bitcoin) 5.432g Gold -- Pending -- $296.03 (CAD)
    Oct 2, 2016 Dubai -- Gold Purchase (Bitcoin) 7.096g Gold -- Confirmed -- $399.75 (CAD)
    Oct 2, 2016 Dubai -- Gold Purchase (Bitcoin) 20.104g Gold -- Confirmed -- $1,132.49 (CAD)
    Oct 1, 2016 Dubai -- Gold Purchase (Altcoin: ETH) 3.939g Gold -- Confirmed -- $221.94 (CAD)

    The first three indicated "Confirmed" within a few hours each -- OK, makes me feel like there's someone on the other end making sure my gold is in place and allocated to my account. Then this fourth one, done on Oct 4, is here showing "Pending" for over three days. Now I'm concerned, because my payment is taken and I'm out the Bitcoin and, according to Goldmoney's own online statements about up to 48 hours to confirm, this should not happen.

    So, I check my email junk folders, and sure enough, there are emails there responding to my queries that say they will look at things when they can. Not actual responses to my questions, and better than nothing, but still leaving me concerned enough about buying any more gold to stop me, even though the prices are low and I would like to be able to invest in more RIGHT NOW.

    So then I check your handy link and download and massage the CSV data to include only Dubai, and this is what I see:

    to_timestamp name sum
    2016-10-07 22:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-07 21:00:02+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-07 20:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-07 19:00:02+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-07 18:00:02+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-07 17:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    .
    ***snipped 60 identical lines, one per hour***
    .
    2016-10-05 05:00:02+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-05 04:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-05 03:00:02+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-05 01:00:02+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-05 00:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-04 23:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-04 22:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-04 21:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-04 20:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-04 19:00:02+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-04 18:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-04 17:00:02+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-04 16:00:02+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-04 15:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-04 14:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-04 13:00:02+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-04 12:00:02+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-04 11:00:02+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-04 10:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-04 09:00:02+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-04 08:00:02+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-04 07:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-04 06:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-04 05:00:02+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-04 04:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-04 03:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-04 02:00:02+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-04 01:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-04 00:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-03 23:00:02+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    .
    ***snipped 20 identical lines, one per hour***
    .
    2016-10-03 02:00:02+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-03 01:00:02+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-03 00:00:02+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-02 23:00:02+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-02 22:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-02 21:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-02 20:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-02 19:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-02 18:00:02+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-02 17:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-02 16:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-02 15:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-02 14:00:02+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-02 13:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-02 12:00:02+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-02 11:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-02 10:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-02 09:00:02+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-02 08:00:02+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-02 07:00:02+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-02 06:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-02 05:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-02 04:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-02 03:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-02 02:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-02 01:00:02+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-02 00:00:02+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-01 23:00:02+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-01 22:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-01 21:00:02+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-01 20:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-01 19:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-01 18:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-01 17:00:02+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-01 16:00:02+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-01 15:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-01 14:00:02+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-01 13:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-01 12:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-01 11:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-01 10:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-01 09:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-01 08:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-01 07:00:02+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-01 06:00:02+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-01 05:00:02+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-01 04:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-01 03:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-01 02:00:03+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-01 01:00:02+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995
    2016-10-01 00:00:02+00 Dubai (Brink's) Gold 49995

    (The point for me here is that I don't see any evidence of my 36.5 g AU actually hitting the vault. So apparently I don't understand what this audit is supposed to mean. Clearly it doesn't actually mean how much of *MY* gold is in there, as it doesn't increase when I buy gold.)

    With 1.8 *BILLION* in customer assets, why are there not telephone support personnel in place for *ALL CUSTOMERS* (not just the high rollers), people that can at least check the status of an order and tell me WHY THE HOLDUP?!?
  • PinkdogPinkdog Posts: 511 Silver ✭✭✭✭
    I have been buying gold using Goldmoney for 8 months now. The buys usually settle within 15 to 30 minutes in the Toronto vault. This week it is taking 48 hours. I think it is a result of a huge increase in the buys and sells. Regardless it really does not matter if it takes 1en minutes or 48 hours. I just want to accumulate gold at the lowest possible cost. Thanks Goldmoney for making it so easy.
  • Hello @WheresTheAU ,

    As we are selling physical gold that has to be physically added to the vault you have selected, there can occasionally be small delays while gold is being moved into the vault. We apologize for any inconvenience the delay might have caused.

    These delays can vary depending to the volume of deposits that each vault receives on a daily basis. Remember that we make sure that your purchase is confirmed only after the gold is physically in the vault, so that you know exactly when the gold gets there.

    I have also sent you an email with details about the deposit.

    Have a nice weekend!
  • 79Au19779Au197 Posts: 4,047 Gold ✭✭✭✭✭
    @WheresTheAU @GoldMatters @GoldIsCurrency @Uvas @Pinkdog @Powerlunchmoney @Murphy @iceman

    As we are selling physical gold that has to be physically added to the vault you have selected, there can occasionally be small delays while gold is being moved into the vault. We apologize for any inconvenience the delay might have caused.

    The above statement is significant. It means that deposits have been so high that there is no longer sufficient gold already in the vault to supply demand. It means that the Assests Under Management are increasing at an ever faster rate (probably due the reduced price of gold or user awareness). It also means that every new bar added to the vault must be acquired from somewhere and the assayed to assure authenticity. The acquisition and assay of these new gold bars no doubt is the cause for the delays. B)
  • GoldmattersGoldmatters Posts: 3,996 Admin
    @79Au197 Agreed. This is significant. Cant wait unil the next quarterly earnings report and hopefully a conference call for more color on this.
  • icemaniceman Posts: 20 Tin ✭
    @79Au197.

    Gold stored in the PayPal Vault cannot be sent to other users, transferred to other vaults, redeemed to your Goldmoney Mastercard, or redeemed directly to your bank account. The PayPal Vault allows PayPal users to have an exclusive storage option to build their gold savings.
  • MurphyMurphy Posts: 98 Bronze ✭✭✭
    I am over 48 hours now since my deposit has been confirmed. Not worried or anything but haven't seen it take this long before.
  • 79Au19779Au197 Posts: 4,047 Gold ✭✭✭✭✭
    @iceman

    Ok so the PayPal vault is like Dubai …
  • WheresTheAUWheresTheAU Posts: 10 Tin ✭
    After three days and four hours, I finally received confirmation of my last purchase.

    This was indeed a relief, especially being a new customer with no prior history with Goldmoney. Sure the website seems good, but delays in responding to queries and not meeting stated deadlines is concerning...

    To me, it seems that to be in a business of this sort it is extremely important to be accurate in representing the facts and conditions to customers. My understanding from the website was that it could take up to 24 to 48 hours to confirm a purchase. So unless I misunderstood that, having to wait for 76 hours was not an option. If it might take more time under exceptionally busy circumstances, then Goldmoney's image would be enhanced if that fact was stated clearly on the website.

    For me there also remains a sense of the unknown with respect to the vault inventories: how is it that I've added my gold to the vault in Dubai over the past week with no impact on stated inventory levels? The Dubai vault numbers seem contrived -- surely this is not a perception that Goldmoney wants to give its customers.

    Does the amount of stated inventory in a given vault actually reflect total customer allotments? Does the number mean something else altogether? How am I to account for the the lack of change in inventory numbers seeing that customer service represented to me that delays had to do with issues related to procuring and physically moving gold? These are things that as a customer I do not understand. Perhaps I haven't landed on the right documentation yet?

    Or maybe there are unstated assumptions that customers need to be better educated about... perhaps Goldmoney could help the customer base understand with providing better transparency and by disclosure of more detailed information.

    I hope that management/staff will read my comments and take them seriously.
  • 79Au19779Au197 Posts: 4,047 Gold ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited October 2016
    @WheresTheAU - all valid questions and concerns for a new user

    @Melanie @Fernanda @Agos (or any other admin that sees this) At what point in the transaction process does the Real Time Audit get updated with regard to a deposit incrementing the total?

    PS it may be that transaction volume is currently higher than anyone imagined. My guess is that the stockpile of gold in the vaults that made transfers quick and easy has been depleted and BRINKS (or Goldmoney) has to go out into the global marketplace to acquire gold, have it delivered, and assayed as it it brought into the vault.

    @Melanie @Fernanda @Agos you may need to update the website for the new reality of deposit times (?)
  • MurphyMurphy Posts: 98 Bronze ✭✭✭
    edited October 2016
    Still waiting I bought early morning on the 6th I do believe. Haven't checked wife's account but since I did it at same time assuming same with her deposit. This is getting a little long in the tooth now. Even not counting weekend this is longer then 48 hours. Unless I am remembering the time on the 6th wrong. (Edit) just checked shows my deposit at 7:30 am.
  • WheresTheAUWheresTheAU Posts: 10 Tin ✭
    I'm seeing around 24 hours or less to confirm from Pending this week in Dubai. Last week one took 76 hours.
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