Gold is money.....Hogwash!

pitchfork1pitchfork1 Posts: 18 Tin ✭
I can take 5 twenty dollar bills and exchange them straight across for a 100 dollar bill anywhere.
Then I can take the same 100 dollar bill and exchange it straight across for 10 ten dollar bills.
Then I can go buy "stuff" needed to live with either one.

Come the day when Goldmoney will exchange a one ounce gold round straight across for 10 tenth ounce gold rounds and then turn right around and exchange 'em back....
At that point gold will be money.

Hell...Goldmoney inc. won't even accept YOUR gold! Try and deposit some....the only thing Goldmoney will do is sell ya some.
It should be named "Fiatmoney inc.", because fiat money is the only money Goldmoney inc. will accept.

"Gold is money" Hogwash!
And a hedge against inflation? Not!!!
Gold is a hedge against one thing....the consequences of fear.
And that in itself is a darn good reason to invest in physical gold which YOU hold.

You can have the sales hype.
Turk and all the rest of them are interested in one thing....and it's not YOUR standard of living.
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Comments

  • PinkdogPinkdog Posts: 511 Silver ✭✭✭✭
    So what's your point?
  • TauntFourstarTauntFourstar Posts: 218 Bronze ✭✭✭
    edited March 2017
    I can break my gold on this system up into .001 gram increments and trade it with anyone else on the network. You rip a 1$ bill in half and you get nothing in exchange with anyone if you only want 50 cents.
    Because our system is the way it is, trading gold around works on an individual basis but trying to go to a coin shop and do it, I'm sure they will charge. After all, their business is selling and buying metals, not exchanging it. Which btw an exchange window also charges fees to convert 1 currency to another. Many banks also charge a fee to do simple things like this unless you have an account with them...
    Goldmoney has talked about accepting your gold but they have to comply with regulations and be sure the gold is real and up to standards.
    It isn't as easy as just saying they won't accept it they will sell you some though... And from my understanding, they don't sell or buy gold from you anyways, they are just the middle man in the transaction.
  • AnacapAnacap Posts: 91 Copper ✭✭
    Gold isn't ever going to be used back as currency phisically. Wealth per gram is too high to be practical, what makes you think it's not going to be used as digital gold with services like goldmoney.
  • TexTex Posts: 197 Bronze ✭✭✭


    In my opinion, Goldmoney is a fantastic service & financial option that fits well with my life.

    Simply put, Goldmoney is just another financial option for the people of the world (if they choose) to use when they are transacting with one another or saving for the future. Goldmoney gives us the option to buy gold, sell gold, spend gold, save gold and spend fiat. We can do that digitally or physically. It gives us the option to be out of the fiat banking system yet still be able to interact in it when we are ready to spend.


  • GMONEY1GMONEY1 Posts: 426 Silver ✭✭✭✭
    Tex said:


    It gives us the option to be out of the fiat banking system .

    @Tex Great points, especially this one!!!

    Some key value-propositions for Goldmoney are that it is outside the banking system but within the regulatory system. The global banking systems is a bubble of credit swaps, derivatives, debt/ious, and empty promises. I gladly welcome a credible solution that is full-reserve and outside of that system...especially if the unit of account, medium of exchange, and store of wealth is gold--- quintessential commodity-based money proven throughout history. Full stop.
  • GoldStandardCanadianGoldStandardCanadian Posts: 148 Bronze ✭✭✭
    Gold has been used as money well over 5000 years, and since ancient times if you consider the investment / trade in precious metals in jewellry (Roy Sebag wrote a wonderful article on that).

    I'm a millenial. I never grew up with an education in gold. Not in school, not from friends, parents or others. I consider myself fortunate to just think critically from time to time on a handful of issues and in keeping an open mind. I owe my understanding of the merits of gold to Jim Rickards and his book "The New Case for Gold". After reading that, I can't look at gold the same way again... there's no way.

    Gold is absolutely ideal as money for its characteristics. Gold stands the test of time. Just because I'm a millenial and wasn't around to learn about gold before the 30's when gold was banned from ownership, or in the 70's for Nixon Shock doesn't mean I should take for granted the status quo that is adopted in my lifetime, which is essentially only a short window of history that stands against the real historical status quo for the lot of history: Gold is Real Money; regardless of my millenial education on economy totally devoid of the topic of gold as money. One thing that is guaranteed in life is change and impermanence - ask your elders to tell you what they've learned in life. But even when things change, fundamentals don't necessarily, and without solid fundamentals, things eventually break down back to the common denominator, sooner or later.

    We have confidence in FIAT because everyone else does, and it's the standard. In other words, we believe in irrationality because we are Sheeple. To play devil's advocate, if the reality were reversed, people would be hard pressed to have confidence in paper pictures with numbers on it. Don't you think?

    But the more humans decide on things, the more it seems we screw up, by most metrics. What is the human vision of success anyway?

    History is a great reflection of our future, for those who learn from it, consciously. There are economists like, for example, Ann Pettifor, whom argue FIAT money can be properly regulated with policy. But the core of that argument, and for money itself is supported by one thing - confidence.

    I try to look at the big picture, with perspective. I'm not shy to have contrarian points of view, so long as it's justified on fundamentals. While it may seem that the belief in gold as money is moot when everyone is using FIAT to get it, that people are paid in FIAT and that gold is treated as a manipulated commodity, doesn't mean that can't change in a hurry. In fact there are plenty of indicators that the government has in fact never stopped their secret and covert belief that gold is money. Look at its fierce resistance to maintaining status quo (FIAT). Look how it's handled by the elites. It screams for the common citizen to get a reality check.

    One great example: Libya's leader Gaddafi was overthrown in part because Gaddafi intended to introduce a gold standard, despite how mainstream media actually portrayed events of him as a vile dictator. Source: Wikileaks. Unless you dig deeper and do your due diligence you'll base your beliefs on mainstream info.

    And even the gold in Iraq - and the conflict areas the US tends to prefer to engage, out of efforts for economic and political control. It is not all about the story they tell us in the news - there's more.

    I challenge people to think critically, consciously, and on real fundamentals. Because regardless of how ridiculous you may seem, real fundamentals will support you when others forget things can't run for long without it. History can teach us, and will do so again.

  • UvasUvas Posts: 678 Silver ✭✭✭✭
    @pitchfork1

    Gold IS money whether you like it or not. Read a little history. This little company doesn't magically change gold into money, gold has always been money. Goldmoney is just using technology to make the use of gold efficient.

    States in the USA are getting rid of capital gains for when gold changes hands. Capital gains taxes are the last hurdle that keeps gold from circulating as money. It is not gold money's fault, it is the government's monopoly on currency. Once gold can compete again freely, it will quickly become the money of choice. It always has, it always will.

    From one account holder to another, you can send any amount of value instantly for no fee. This is exactly how money works. And as the system grows, more and more gold will change hands within they system. And the Goldmoney system is growing at a steady pace.
  • pitchfork1pitchfork1 Posts: 18 Tin ✭

    I can break my gold....

    You don't have any gold. Goldmoney has gold.
    And I have Gold....Lot's of rounds.
    And there's not a hell of a lot that I can do with it.
    I can't even deposit it with Goldmoney.

  • pitchfork1pitchfork1 Posts: 18 Tin ✭
    Tex said:


    ....sell gold...... We can do that....physically.

    I have some rounds. All 4 nines.
    So explain to me how I use Goldmoney to sell my physical.

  • pitchfork1pitchfork1 Posts: 18 Tin ✭
    Pinkdog said:

    So what's your point?

    Goldmoney is incorporated in the US.
    Goldmoney is "regulated????" by a US corporation.
    Goldmoney uses Bank Card systems owned by the US money center banks.
    They communicate over satellites owned by the USG.
    Goldmoney is subject to the US legal system.

    These guys are implying that the use of Goldmoney will result in the protection of your wealth and the ability to use your wealth.

    The obvious fear is a dollar collapse resulting in the Dollar's loss of reserve currency status.
    If that happens do you REALLY think that the UST is going to let Goldmoney transact in the US?
    As Turk...he knows.

    You MAY be able to "USE" your Goldmoney account BALANCE but my guess is that it won't be in the USA.

    If the dollar actually does loose reserve currency status then there will be a grab for wealth in the US like the world has never seen before.
    Since the USD "was" the reserve currency it is likely that gold and anything else of value will be a part of that grab.
    And it will be the USG....that's you and I my friend....doin' the grabbin'.

    My point....Don't put all your eggs in THIS easter basket!
  • pitchfork1pitchfork1 Posts: 18 Tin ✭

    "Goldmoney doesn't have my gold, Brinks stores and protects it."

    Goldmoney has a contract with numerous storage facilities. In your case perhaps it is with Brinks.
    YOU do not have any legal agreement with Brinks. Brinks doesn't know your allocation or ownership from Adam.
    Your agreement is with Goldmoney. Brinks is protecting Goldmoney assets to which you have rights.
    Don't think so? Call Brinks and ask them how much gold you have and if they will release it to you.
    Again...we are back talking about the USG, it's laws, and the US legal system.

    "I can take your physical gold off your hands"

    I'd be happy to sell you my some of my stack when the time comes.
    I'll even beat Goldmoney's price.
    But I don't think Goldmoney will still be sellin' then, so I'll beat the ask.
    How long is your offer good for?
  • pitchfork1pitchfork1 Posts: 18 Tin ✭
    Anacap said:

    what makes you think it's not going to be used as digital gold with services like goldmoney

    Excellent question!
    Central Banks, ie Money Center Banks hold about 80% of the physical on the planet. Their gravy train is the creation of fiat throught credit which allows theft by inflation. If it is really true that they hold 80% of all gold then digital gold just isn't going to happen.

  • UvasUvas Posts: 678 Silver ✭✭✭✭



    Anacap said:

    what makes you think it's not going to be used as digital gold with services like goldmoney

    Excellent question!
    Central Banks, ie Money Center Banks hold about 80% of the physical on the planet. Their gravy train is the creation of fiat throught credit which allows theft by inflation. If it is really true that they hold 80% of all gold then digital gold just isn't going to happen.

    Well, it is not true that central banks hold 80% of gold. Stating it as fact doesn't make it true. As of 2014 central banks held around 32,000 tons out of a total supply of 177,000 tons. Or about 18%.
  • TauntFourstarTauntFourstar Posts: 218 Bronze ✭✭✭
    @pitchfork1
    I don't think anyone in here has all their eggs in GM... at least not from the US. If that is your main point, then I would agree.
    From what I understand, there are many people outside of the US that have the reality of falling currency value and have turned to GM to help preserve some of their wealth. They may not be able to buy a 1 ounce round or even a quarter ounce. They can however buy a gram or less and for very cheap with GM.
    If your real point is that you don't trust someone to keep your gold for you or you do not trust GM, then that is your own skepticism and I myself felt the same way before. When I started to see the benefits to GM vs buying physical at coin store, I changed my tune. This platform allows just about everyone to be able to jump into the gold market where before they were limited. This gives the potential of a shift in how commerce works. If it doesn't go far, then so be it but at this early stage it is still promising.
    I ask you, what is the alternative that you are proposing? Right now I can put my idle wealth in the banking system... (no thank you), or into gold/silver... GM is my preferred choice right now because it its very easy to liquidate back into the USD where I can then use it again for other investments when I need to.

    Goldmoney has said they have plans or had plans to accept someones gold, but again, even the simplist mind can understand the hurdles one would have to go through and the logistics involved in that. I need not go into details...

    If the USG as you say would not allow GM to operate in the US.. I would compare fear of a dollar crisis to your fear of the USG interfering with GM.

    Lastly, to my understanding, brinks keeps gold in 1KG bars so you are right that I could not walk up to brinks and say give me my xx grams of gold, unless I owned the GM personal max of 1000grams. Josh Crumb said in a townhall that if you did want to go down to say brinks in New York, you could work out that scenario to pick it up rather than paying a shipping fee.
  • TexTex Posts: 197 Bronze ✭✭✭

    Tex said:


    ....sell gold...... We can do that....physically.

    I have some rounds. All 4 nines.
    So explain to me how I use Goldmoney to sell my physical.

    You got me. I should of added the asterisk and fine print. A person would have to use a different outlet (ebay, person to person, local dealer, etc) to sell any physical gold and transfer it back to fiat currency.

    This is a good point though and a ripe opportunity for some entrepreneur to fill in the gap that might be needed. What is stopping local bullion dealers from teaming up with Goldmoney and offering some sort of exchange program? What kind of demand is there for this service, I have no idea but, it sounds like an opportunity.

    Goldmoney is a Savings and Payment platform (similar to that of PayPal), Not a central bank. It's not competing with the government banks to replace them. It's competing with payment processors, gold dealers, and the savings options that are out there.

    Goldmoney has done a beautiful job of mixing "old" money with "new" money tech and attached it to the current financial road system that the world runs on.

    @pitchfork1 you sound a lot like critics of paypal 17+ years ago. There is obviously a huge world wide demand for the Goldmoney service just as there was a demand for the paypal service almost two decades ago.

    @pitchfork1 I'm glad you started this thread. There is no better way to understand something than to question it. Obviously you are interested in Goldmoney in some form or fashion because you are here. I hope that whatever you are searching for here in the community you find and may it lead you to form a well informed decision on weather or not to use the Goldmoney network. God speed.
  • pitchfork1pitchfork1 Posts: 18 Tin ✭

    @pitchfork1
    Josh Crumb said in a townhall that if you did want to go down to say brinks in New York, you could work out that scenario to pick it up rather than paying a shipping fee.

    HOGWASH!!!

    Josh Crumb...eh?

    You pick up your phone right now and call Brinks.
    Identify yourself.
    And tell them that you want to take physical possession of your gold.
    Not only does Brinks not have a mechanism to provide you with gold they are going to tell you to go talk to Goldmoney.
    Crumb didn't say you could get your gold from Brinks, he said you could MAYBE pick you gold up at brinks AFTER Goldmoney arranged it.

    If for ANY reason, Goldmoney goes radio silent you aren't going to see your physical without a fight. Period.
    And the USG could cause that radio silence in the blink of the eye.
    Dig Roosevelt up and ask him.
    Goldmoney is, in the final analysis, a US company.

    Sales hype doesn't come from the saleman, it comes from the head shed.
    Sales hype is your clue to run for cover.
    And Goldmoney is pumpin' it out.

    Do ya still want to talk about Paypal?
    Paypal is just about as bad as it gets.
  • pitchfork1pitchfork1 Posts: 18 Tin ✭

    @pitchfork1 demonstrably trolltastic post!

    Thank you! Thank you!
    That is the best compliment I've had in ages.
    But it would have been more enjoyable had you replaced demostrably with demonic!

  • pitchfork1pitchfork1 Posts: 18 Tin ✭
    edited March 2017

    @pitchfork1
    there are many people outside of the US that have the reality of falling currency value and have turned to GM to help preserve some of their wealth

    I couldn't agree more. If I lived in Greece or Croatia or any of the [inappropriate term removed] then every penny I owned would be at GM.
    The crooks in Athens probably make the crooks in NY look like saints.

  • GoldIsCurrencyGoldIsCurrency Posts: 1,781 Gold ✭✭✭✭✭
    @pitchfork1 I hate to pop your ignorance bubble that you are so proud of but YES you can redeem gold in the form of 1kg bars DIRECTLY FROM THE VAULT. If you take the bloody time to look at the redemption options you will see, 1kg Bar Vault Pickup.

  • pitchfork1pitchfork1 Posts: 18 Tin ✭

    @pitchfork1 I hate to pop your ignorance bubble that you are so proud of but YES you can redeem gold in the form of 1kg bars DIRECTLY FROM THE VAULT. If you take the bloody time to look at the redemption options you will see, 1kg Bar Vault Pickup.

    NO! You are wrong. The redeem request webpage, which you provided a picture of, is a communication with Goldmoney Inc. not the vault operator.
    As the boldface indicates you can make a PICKUP from the vault, not a redemption request.

    As I said, if for ANY reason Goldmoney goes radio silent then you will play hell getting your physical.
    Pick up your phone.
    Call your vault operator.
    Make the request.
    And see what happens.

    Now that you have popped my ignorance bubble, see what you can do with my errogence bubble. It's even bigger!
  • TauntFourstarTauntFourstar Posts: 218 Bronze ✭✭✭
    @pitchfork1

    I am curious what other company you would trust if any? I don't see you providing any alternatives or solutions to all of your posts.
    I could think of a ton of different scenarios that would scare me from putting my money anywhere... but unless I have any evidence in a specific case to cause me REAL concern, then its just my imagination at work.
  • pitchfork1pitchfork1 Posts: 18 Tin ✭

    @pitchfork1

    I am curious what other company you would trust if any?.......


    Right now... I don't know. I have a little (obviously that's relative) physical Ag, Au, Pt, and Pd in desirable form factors and denominations.
    It was stored in a private box leased from Bank of America, located inside one of their physical vault locations. The BAC branch manager told me that if and when UST paused banking operations then the vault would be inaccessible to it's leaseholders, me. Further he told me that if the UST directed an IRS audit of the vault contents then BAC would most likely kowtow to the UST and my access would be denied until an IRS auditor was present. I don't know if any of this is true or not, but I pulled the contents of my leased box.

    I am waiting for GM to implement policies and procedures for accepting physical before funding the account. Until the US Congress resolves the debt issue through reduced spending I will hold my physical and fund a payment platform such as GM with operating funds only.

    DEPENDING upon how this whole mess works out, it is at least possible that any metals which you own but do now physically hold may become undeliverable. And that includes gold at GM.
  • TauntFourstarTauntFourstar Posts: 218 Bronze ✭✭✭
    I hear you.. there is obviously a level of risk.. and I understand your concerns. But this risk for me is not high enough based on the likelihood of some crazy scenario happening at this point nor do I see any indications yet that likelihood will increase of these scenarios so for me... I am ok with putting some of my wealth into GM's hands. I myself do not like the current banking system nor do i like the debt based economy. I see the US kicking the can down the road as long as possible and debt rising. For me I would prefer to put money into GM to save some of my wealth rather than put it into a bank or bank deposit box.
    The fact that GM offers free storage and insurance is a benefit and I mostly am happy that I can buy gold in smaller increments with super low fees. I just cant affort to put down 1000$+ for an ounce at one purchase. I would rather buy as often as possible from the convenience of my phone or recurring deposit, which GM allows me to do (now minimum of .25 grams). If I want my gold in hand, I can redeem physical and even the gold cubes are worth their weight in gold so I am ok with the service and have not had any issues as of yet. I see a lot of progress in my short exposure to the company. Still a lot of little bugs but as time goes on, those will be addressed.
    I am also happy with the recent customer support staff augmentation. Seems to be helping and I am also seeing much more traffic from support team even on this forum and in the external review sites where unhappy customers post reviews and GM is responding to them. many of those bad reviews seem like user error or email was sent to junk mail.. minor details.
  • pitchfork1pitchfork1 Posts: 18 Tin ✭
    edited March 2017

    @pitchfork1
    there are many people outside of the US that have the reality of falling currency value and have turned to GM to help preserve some of their wealth

    I couldn't agree more. If I lived in Greece or Croatia or any of the [inappropriate term removed] then every penny I owned would be at GM.
    The crooks in Athens probably make the crooks in NY look like saints.

    GM...where do you get off censoring my, homemade, appropriate, accurate, and non vulgar description of the "stans".
    "[Admin removing again]" is completely acceptable. Are you a Muslim?
    Ya want my money? Then Stop it!
  • MelanieMelanie Posts: 1,045 Gold ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited March 2017
    @pitchfork1 Racial slurs and derogatory language are not permitted on the Community. One does not need to be of a certain group to recognize discriminatory language. Please enjoy your cooling off period and feel free to review the Community Guidelines during this time.

    Edit: It seems a cooling off period was not sufficient, and unfortunately you have now lost Community privileges due to continued rude behaviour.
  • TauntFourstarTauntFourstar Posts: 218 Bronze ✭✭✭
    edited March 2017
    @pitchfork1 said:

    If for ANY reason, Goldmoney goes radio silent...
    And the USG could cause that radio silence in the blink of the eye.
    Dig Roosevelt up and ask him.


    Heres my response to that to be light hearted

    If for ANY reason, @pitchfork1 goes radio silent...
    And the GMM (GoldMoney Moderators) could cause that radio silence in the blink of the eye.
    Dig @pitchfork1 up and ask him.

    GG
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