Holding Account no difference

TheRaveneerTheRaveneer Posts: 100 Bronze ✭✭✭
As a Personal account-only holder, I don't even understand if anything's changed for me. Sure, there's a new login page with fancy gold colouring, but I always had the option to apply for a Wealth account and I denied doing it because I didn't want to pay for storage fees for my sub-1000g account. Now there's a lot of tricky words out there in this release, and sure, everyone new is going to be forced to pay storage fees, but for those of us that have Personal, you'd have to be crazy to force yourself to upgrade to a Wealth (err, Holding) account and start paying more fees. I don't need silver, I don't need to store currencies, I don't need phone support. What I do need is a Canadian Mastercard when they have time to finish that up instead of trying to trick us all into paying fees.

Can someone else tell me what possible incentive I have to apply for a Wealth (Holding) account and let my Personal account go? I don't refer that many people to the platform, so there's no point in saying "new referral program". Maybe I missed something.

You guys all asked for phone support, so here you go, fees for everyone. At least only the new customers are forced to pay for it, until the "encouragement" to upgrade to Wealth becomes "we're shutting down Personal accounts as of such-and-such date".

Comments

  • FrenkyFrenky Posts: 1 Tin ✭
    Couldn't agree more! Just a matter of time before our personal accounts are shut down. Guess I'll have to find something different now.
  • jonnybitcoinjonnybitcoin Posts: 24 Tin ✭
    Right now collecting my 1kg gold bar from the vault costs 0.47g ($19)
    If I "upgrade" to the new account it will cost me 10g ($400) and I'll be paying storage fees.

    What a joke!
  • mr1mr1 Posts: 359 Bronze ✭✭✭

    As a Personal account-only holder, I don't even understand if anything's changed for me. Sure, there's a new login page with fancy gold colouring, but I always had the option to apply for a Wealth account and I denied doing it because I didn't want to pay for storage fees for my sub-1000g account. Now there's a lot of tricky words out there in this release, and sure, everyone new is going to be forced to pay storage fees, but for those of us that have Personal, you'd have to be crazy to force yourself to upgrade to a Wealth (err, Holding) account and start paying more fees. I don't need silver, I don't need to store currencies, I don't need phone support. What I do need is a Canadian Mastercard when they have time to finish that up instead of trying to trick us all into paying fees.

    Can someone else tell me what possible incentive I have to apply for a Wealth (Holding) account and let my Personal account go? I don't refer that many people to the platform, so there's no point in saying "new referral program". Maybe I missed something.

    You guys all asked for phone support, so here you go, fees for everyone. At least only the new customers are forced to pay for it, until the "encouragement" to upgrade to Wealth becomes "we're shutting down Personal accounts as of such-and-such date".

    @TheRaveneer
    I don't think they are trying to trick people into moving to Holding accounts and paying fees. I'm assuming they are just allowing the existing personal accounts to stay open with zero storage fees out of appreciation for the early adopters. But at some point they may need to close those.

    Offering free storage up to 1000g was nice while it lasted, and it helped build a customer base, but it obviously does cost money to store that gold, so that cost had to be subsidized by other parts of the business. And apparently Goldmoney made a business decision that it was time to stop subsidizing that part of the business.

    I still think it would be a good business idea to give a smaller amount (maybe 100-200g) of free storage to continually help attract new users, but I don't feel slighted in anyway that I'll now have to pay storage fees to pay for my service.

    Also, the storage fees are extremely cheap, just 0.01% for Gold. With Gold around $40/g, that is only around $4 a month ($48 a year) for $40,000 worth of storage (1000g). That is a heck of a deal.
  • AlienMeAlienMe Posts: 53 Copper ✭✭
    So is this true, no change for existing clients for now at least?
  • Marco_1983Marco_1983 Posts: 152 Bronze ✭✭✭
    @mr1 I completely agree. Storage fees are really cheap and reasonable.

    And I also like the fact that the more active you are (buying/trading metals) the less fees you would have to pay.
  • CromiusCromius Posts: 16 Tin ✭
    It also looks like they increase their buy fees for gold.
    Their fee table says: 2.49% for $1- $9,999(USD) worth of gold.
    Plus this fee:
    BUYING/SELLING FEES - GOLD, SILVER, PLATINUM, PALLADIUM
    This fee is paid each time you buy or sell precious metals and is charged on top of the quoted buy and sell fees.
    Transaction Type Fee Buy 0.5%


    Note the wording says charged on top of the quoted buy and sell fees. I'm assuming the quoted buy and sell fees are those listed in the fees table based on purchase amount. Also note that the wording says "This fee is paid each time you buy or sell precious metals".
    If i remember correctly, with my personal account I only paid fees when buying gold and not when selling it and the fee I paid was only 0.5 above the best bid price.

    If I'm correctly reading this I think we can assume its going to become a lot more expensive to hold gold here at Goldmoney.
  • GoldIsCurrencyGoldIsCurrency Posts: 1,762 Gold ✭✭✭✭✭
    @Cromius When the Personal Accounts were first launched we paid %1 above best bid to Buy gold and 1% from best bid to Sell gold. They reduced both of those fee's by 50% all the way down to 0.5% for both Buying and Selling your gold.
    Cromius said:


    If i remember correctly, with my personal account I only paid fees when buying gold and not when selling it and the fee I paid was only 0.5 above the best bid price.

    If I'm correctly reading this I think we can assume its going to become a lot more expensive to hold gold here at Goldmoney.

  • mr1mr1 Posts: 359 Bronze ✭✭✭
    @Cromius
    I think the fee schedule you were looking at is outdated. Look at the date it was last updated. The have one from 2015 still up that they really need to fix.
  • GarethGareth Posts: 22 Staff ✭✭✭✭✭
    We've updated our fees documentation! You can find it at the bottom of the page here: https://www.goldmoney.com/dealing-rates-and-storage-fees
  • Ganzie83Ganzie83 Posts: 2 Tin ✭
    edited June 2017
    mr1 said:

    As a Personal account-only holder, I don't even understand if anything's changed for me. Sure, there's a new login page with fancy gold colouring, but I always had the option to apply for a Wealth account and I denied doing it because I didn't want to pay for storage fees for my sub-1000g account. Now there's a lot of tricky words out there in this release, and sure, everyone new is going to be forced to pay storage fees, but for those of us that have Personal, you'd have to be crazy to force yourself to upgrade to a Wealth (err, Holding) account and start paying more fees. I don't need silver, I don't need to store currencies, I don't need phone support. What I do need is a Canadian Mastercard when they have time to finish that up instead of trying to trick us all into paying fees.

    Can someone else tell me what possible incentive I have to apply for a Wealth (Holding) account and let my Personal account go? I don't refer that many people to the platform, so there's no point in saying "new referral program". Maybe I missed something.

    You guys all asked for phone support, so here you go, fees for everyone. At least only the new customers are forced to pay for it, until the "encouragement" to upgrade to Wealth becomes "we're shutting down Personal accounts as of such-and-such date".

    @TheRaveneer
    I don't think they are trying to trick people into moving to Holding accounts and paying fees. I'm assuming they are just allowing the existing personal accounts to stay open with zero storage fees out of appreciation for the early adopters. But at some point they may need to close those.

    Offering free storage up to 1000g was nice while it lasted, and it helped build a customer base, but it obviously does cost money to store that gold, so that cost had to be subsidized by other parts of the business. And apparently Goldmoney made a business decision that it was time to stop subsidizing that part of the business.

    I still think it would be a good business idea to give a smaller amount (maybe 100-200g) of free storage to continually help attract new users, but I don't feel slighted in anyway that I'll now have to pay storage fees to pay for my service.

    Also, the storage fees are extremely cheap, just 0.01% for Gold. With Gold around $40/g, that is only around $4 a month ($48 a year) for $40,000 worth of storage (1000g). That is a heck of a deal.
    I hope not (shutting down personal account). People from the Netherlands can't open a Wealth account (because of Netherlands Authority of Financial Markets, AFM). Then what?
  • CromiusCromius Posts: 16 Tin ✭
    edited June 2017
    @Gareth Thanks for linking to the updated fee table. If you go to page 2 on this pdf document @Gareth was referring to you can see the numbers I reference above are not out of date and that it does appear that fees for buying and selling are increasing dramatically.

    https://www.goldmoney.com/images/media/Files/Docs/goldmoney-fees.pdf
  • CromiusCromius Posts: 16 Tin ✭
    Gareth said:

    We've updated our fees documentation! You can find it at the bottom of the page here: https://www.goldmoney.com/dealing-rates-and-storage-fees

    The footnotes of that pdf still say " OUR FEES EXPLAINED | LAST UPDATED OCTOBER 7, 2015". Has it been updated and linked yet?
  • TheRaveneerTheRaveneer Posts: 100 Bronze ✭✭✭
    @Gareth, it's a good attempt, but Paypal isn't mentioned on the webpage, and the gold storage fees are all rounded so they over and understate the amounts we owe.

    That said, I had to run the math to see the true storage fees with a monthly deposit scenario.

    Eg. Assume you have a balance of C$1000 in gold, and you setup a monthly deposit of $100. Based on my figures, the commission paid on the $100 deposit covers your C$1100 balance up until it reaches C$5000, then you'd have to start paying storage again until you upped your monthly deposit amount. Not terrible I suppose. But unless there's an actual reason for me to move to Wealth (Holding), I'm unlikely to take on the needless complication (eg. redo all the paperwork, pray that I don't get charged for storage, etc).
  • CromiusCromius Posts: 16 Tin ✭
    edited June 2017
    Checkout this thread where a user claims the new fees are similar to the fee structure I posted above from Goldmoney's new fee table.

    http://community.goldmoney.com/discussion/4118/gold-purchase-fee-of-2-85-ouch#latest
  • TheRaveneerTheRaveneer Posts: 100 Bronze ✭✭✭
    Cromius, are you looking at the same fees document? Your link above points to "LAST UPDATED JUNE 19, 2017" and there are no references to anything that says 2.49%. It's 0.5% over BBO to buy and 0.5% over BBO to sell.
  • CromiusCromius Posts: 16 Tin ✭

    Cromius, are you looking at the same fees document? Your link above points to "LAST UPDATED JUNE 19, 2017" and there are no references to anything that says 2.49%. It's 0.5% over BBO to buy and 0.5% over BBO to sell.

    No we are not. They have just updated the date on the one I had linked above. Yesterday it had the incorrect date.
  • CromiusCromius Posts: 16 Tin ✭
    It appears Goldmoney has finally updated their fee statement.
  • TheRaveneerTheRaveneer Posts: 100 Bronze ✭✭✭
    edited June 2017
    It was updated day before yesterday, you were just looking at a poor cached copy. I couldn't understand your posts from yesterday, either :) No worries.
  • yurisyuris Posts: 1 Tin ✭
    What happens for clients based in the Netherlands? They cannot convert from Personal to a Wealth Holding... Goldmoney doesn't have an AFM license, which is actually easy to get, looking at competitors like Goldrepublic. Not sure why Goldmoney refuses to get one to keep providing services to Dutch clients?
  • mr1mr1 Posts: 359 Bronze ✭✭✭
    > @yuris said:
    > What happens for clients based in the Netherlands? They cannot convert from Personal to a Wealth Holding... Goldmoney doesn't have an AFM license, which is actually easy to get, looking at competitors like Goldrepublic. Not sure why Goldmoney refuses to get one to keep providing services to Dutch clients?

    I doubt that Goldmoney just refuses to get an AFM license. I'm guessing it is just that they are a young international and it is difficult to do everything at once. Hopefully they can fix this soon.

    By the way, it looks like Goldmoney substantially beats out Goldrepublic pricing:
    Goldrepublic: Buy/Sell fee: 1%, Storage fee: 0.5% per year
    Goldmoney: Buy/Sell fee: 0.5%, Storage fee: 0.12% per year (plus buy/sell fees get credited to offset storage fees)

    @Melanie
    Can you give any information about the status of services for the Netherlands?
  • MKRMKR Posts: 2 Tin ✭
    yuris said:

    What happens for clients based in the Netherlands? They cannot convert from Personal to a Wealth Holding... Goldmoney doesn't have an AFM license, which is actually easy to get, looking at competitors like Goldrepublic. Not sure why Goldmoney refuses to get one to keep providing services to Dutch clients?

    Correct me if i'm wrong, but reading the holding FAQ, Netherlands is now listed. So it seems that residence of the Netherlands can open a basic and full Holding account now.
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