Universal Basic Income

Lone_StarrLone_Starr Posts: 104 Bronze ✭✭✭
edited February 2018 in Community Cafe
Saw this on CNBC

Is it just me, do you think this is a HUGE danger?

If fiat currency isn't worth working for, don't you think it becomes obsolete?
Hyperinflation or at least Prices adjusting up making the payments pointless.

If this becomes a reality, I'm going to s-can cash savings and go all in on tangibles.

Am I missing something here. Am I crazy to think this is a REALLY BAD IDEA?


  • GoldNRollGoldNRoll Posts: 207 Bronze ✭✭✭
    @Lone_Starr Is this constitutional? Even if written in law by the federal government, can States nullify it?
  • RocketDogRocketDog Posts: 759 Silver ✭✭✭✭
    @Lone_Starr it seems to be a bad idea to me. Of course inflation would be an issue. The bigger issue is, where does that money come from? It would be one thing if say, a country sells it's mineral reserves and says that's the people's money and splits that money among everyone. (I think some Native American nations do this.) Many middle eastern countries did that too, with their oil money -- and their citizens went untrained and underutilized in the work force. But I don't see the USA nationalizing the profits on natural resources. So where is the money going to come from?Are they going to tax the middle and upper class more than Universal Basic Income just to fund the lower class? Isn't that happening already?

    @GoldNRoll if the Federal Government decided to give all US citizens some money, I don't think the states could do anything about it. It is kind of like when the Federal Government gives everyone a tax refund. It goes straight from the Feds to the people.

    It would absolutely disincentivize workers. Not the poor ones. But the middle class, older, single people, with no debt, who almost don't need to work anymore. We'd go to beach, for sure, as long as we could work out the health care issue.
  • GoldNRollGoldNRoll Posts: 207 Bronze ✭✭✭
    @RocketDog A mass strike of the entrepreneurs then, John Galt-style, may work to calm down everyone. "Stop the motor of the world". Businesses halting their activity, entrepreneurs living on the basic income for a while... just for fun.
  • RocketDogRocketDog Posts: 759 Silver ✭✭✭✭
    edited February 2018
    @GoldNRoll for sure. I think it is about to happen. A lot of "Free Market" folks were willing to vote for Bernie Sanders and just step over to the "bread line" because we are tired of being tapped out through taxation and inflation. We could just heartily participate in the bread line as the wheels of progress grind to a halt. But this usually leads to a disastrous end.
    Another option is to just get independent. Stop working for others and just grow your own food and wait it out, while electing Trump just for fun, to watch and enjoy as the liberals go insane.
    Less destructive than the socialist decline would be to organize and resist right now through alternative media and social gatherings -- maybe even trying to do business only with other free market types. But that takes a great deal of courage and puts targets on specific people. If we can't be brave enough ourselves, we can at least support alternative media outlets whose message we support.
    These are seriously ugly times. I think a lot of us did not realize how insanely Marxist things had gotten until Trump was elected and the Trump Derangement Syndrome appeared. All the self-righteous violence by the left... The complete lack of free speech due to PC requirements. Getting thrown out of social media platforms such as Facebook and Twitter and losing our jobs due to difference of opinion. It is crazy. Hello "1984" -- a couple decades late.
    I am not sure I would worry about Universal Basic Income that much. It is unlikely to come about, besides -- the major effect it would have is already happening. I think something like 55% of Americans are already living on entitlement programs, if you count Social Security and Welfare. Even Social Security pays out more than it brings in. There is a formula for the poorest recipients to give them more than they paid in to bring them above poverty level. Medicare and Medicaid were clearly not paid into by the recipients -- that is pure thievery from the working class. Add in the government work force and their pensions. Well, not many workers left to support all that unearned consumption. We are already there.
  • GoldNRollGoldNRoll Posts: 207 Bronze ✭✭✭
    @RocketDog The reality look ugly indeed :neutral:
    "Less destructive than the socialist decline would be to organize and resist right now through alternative media and social gatherings -- maybe even trying to do business only with other free market types." - check out this new site created exactly for what you've said: businesses, events, media!


    NH and the Boston area are very active, mostly due to the Free State Project. That only pin in Europe is me :smile:

  • Lone_StarrLone_Starr Posts: 104 Bronze ✭✭✭

    I don't see Universal Basic Income getting implemented or having any real serious consideration from the government at the moment. The idea is just being seeded right now. If / when another bad recession / depression hits or crazy inflation, this idea will be pushed because people don't think clearly when they are afraid.

    The USD was backed by gold, then somewhat gold, then oil and debt. Since 2008 / 9 ish its back by nothing but momentum and comfort.

    @RocketDog the money will come from where it comes from now - [Treasury]"Yo fed we need more $". [Fed]"OK" type type type cha-ching "Its in your account", [Treasury] "Thanks bro. I'll need more tomorrow."

    We live in interesting times. I hope all involved are able to steer this ship in a positive direction and patch the leaks while we each build a better life boat.

    Never underestimate the creativity of the innovator and entrepreneur whose drive is to make life better. Two examples is the birth of cryptos and the push for gold (goldmoney and others).

    The government we have and the world wide debt is a reflection of us as a whole. If we don't like it, the only way to make the financial situation better is not to push the change on others but, to look in the mirror and change ourselves.
  • GoldNRollGoldNRoll Posts: 207 Bronze ✭✭✭
    One way I decided to change myself is on how I communicate with socialists. They are driven by impulses and emotions. If I continue to answer with logic, there is no communication. So I do stop preaching Austrian economics and the benefits of liberty over coercion. I will actively listen and sincerely try to understand the socialist deepest worries. There must be some very profound frustration and anger that they hide of which the social and political impulse is just a manifestation. We have to find out.

    Another good change for us is to adapt to the circumstances, choose to remain calm and positive and concentrate on what can be done instead of suffering and complaining.

    And I'm sure there are other changes that we can go through to be better of.
  • RocketDogRocketDog Posts: 759 Silver ✭✭✭✭
    @GoldnRoll the fear of the socialists is that the conservatives will take away their free stuff. (And we will.)
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