• GadsillaGadsilla Posts: 131 Bronze ✭✭✭
    edited March 7
    What do you guys think of this ? I'm curious as to what the communtiy thinks of it. What are your thoughts on it @Goldmatters
  • GoldmattersGoldmatters Posts: 4,068 Admin
    edited March 7

    I want to preface this by saying i have no official knowledge as to the reason for this announcement, as it was mentioned in the PR that this was considered amongst the BOD, which I am obviously not on...

    One thing I would add is that Roy said publicly that it would be easier to open a holding by the end of this year in response to a question about this announcement. So one might infer that the cryptocurrency portion of the business had affected that process in some way.

    Unfortunately as we are all aware of, government always has the ability to change the rules at any time. Not saying that is what did or did not happen here, but it’s important to note .

    What about you @Gadsilla , what are your thoughts?
  • SilvermanSilverman Posts: 9 Tin ✭
    I love it. Cryptos are lame
  • Midas65Midas65 Posts: 47 Copper ✭✭
    I trust Roy's judgement. Management is the most important variable in a smaller venture company (which Goldmoney still is) and I am sure he made this decision with a broad base of opinions and knowledge.
    It would take up many resources to become a big player in crypto, assuming it does last.
  • CryptoladyCryptolady Posts: 6 Tin ✭
    So if you lose 50% of your value in cryptos because of this...what do you think of that??
  • nienie Posts: 160 Bronze ✭✭✭
  • UvasUvas Posts: 680 Silver ✭✭✭✭
    I think Roy is just salty over losing so much value in his bcash holdings.
  • BillybetaBillybeta Posts: 47 Copper ✭✭
    getting out of cyrpto's is a good thing i think....i want to know what are the implications for blockvault as I think that could have a lot of value? any thoughts community????
  • GadsillaGadsilla Posts: 131 Bronze ✭✭✭
    I think it's a good idea. In my opinion, crypto has no real future. I am no expert though.
  • GM_enthusiastGM_enthusiast Posts: 9 Tin ✭
    This is a great decision. The Crypto business won't generate FCF from here. We can still sell block vault to some other company who might care. I believe this move will reduce the correlation between the stock and bitcoin price. There is a lot of potential in the stock. MENE is doing great. SchiffGold is doing great and the Holdings will be easier to sign-up and operate once the full User Experience revamp happens (app + other functionalities). I think goldmoney will buy a majority stake in Lend Borrow and Trust. This will help them merge it into the Holding infrastructure.
    I liked to see that Josh Crumb is still a shareholder and just posted on twitter that he loves Roy and will continue being a client and shareholder forever. This is the type of reinforcement I was looking for. XAU and XAUMF will double from here. The stock is still super undervalued trading at book value. There is a huge opportunity and things are moving in the right direction! VERY excited about the future.
  • BigMouseBigMouse Posts: 147 Bronze ✭✭✭
    I think this was the reason Josh left company last year. He created block vault for GM.
  • nienie Posts: 160 Bronze ✭✭✭
    Yes, this might be reason. Good to see that he still fully believes in the success of Goldmoney:
  • powslayerpowslayer Posts: 118 Bronze ✭✭✭
    I look forward to the release on the future of blockvault. Will it be a sale or another spinoff?? Time will tell I guess there is the chance it was just scrapped but in my opinion that's not likely.
  • BillybetaBillybeta Posts: 47 Copper ✭✭
    anybody know what the capex was on blockvault?
  • powslayerpowslayer Posts: 118 Bronze ✭✭✭
    @Billybeta they raised 30 million if I remember right to build it out. I dont think they used that much but really dont know forsure.
  • GoldNRollGoldNRoll Posts: 233 Bronze ✭✭✭
    I'm really happy with this decision!

    While we can imagine smart transactions of gold on a blockchain, gold and cryptos are different things. Apart being Nokia, a company cannot excel in multiple industries :smile:

    Josh Crumb would disagree but my opinion is that cryptos are fiat, not commodity money. I guess Roy also inclines towards this view and maybe it was one of the reasons Josh left.
    Anyways, cryptos and gold are competing money and people should choose what they use on a free market. But an organisation cannot compete with itself by playing both sides.

    For a fintech company to have blockchain experience and experts is precious. For GM, this experience is a net positive even after closing BlockVault. Using blockchain to transact and mark gold ownership in vaults is something that needs research.

  • GoldmattersGoldmatters Posts: 4,068 Admin
    edited March 12

    Thanks for your thoughts @GoldNRoll ! You are a valuable contributor to the community.

    Check out Josh Crumbs thoughts on this in the tweet above.

    So far shareholders have reacted favorably to this move :)
  • RocketDogRocketDog Posts: 821 Silver ✭✭✭✭
    I have to agree with @GoldNRoll. I was shocked when Goldmoney went into Cryptos and am so happy that they are getting out. They truly seem like diametrically opposite strategies in storing value. I am glad we are back to precious metals and look forward to the meteoric rise in Goldmoney stock value.
  • ProsperProsper Posts: 14 Tin ✭
    So any word on when the transfer tool will be available if we have crypto and we want to send to another wallet or convert all to one coin and send that out or something. The announcement was made, but the tool was a Work In Progress. My only gripe is that they should have been available at the same time if the new roadmap dictated that this was necessary to accomplish company strategy.
  • TomSwiftTomSwift Posts: 47 Copper ✭✭
    Just saw this. Terrible idea. When I was living in China, buying Bitcoin then buying Gold was the easiest way to get funds out of the country. The new Chinese government regulations state that anything in a bank account over 5000 RMB can be confiscated at any time, so my plan was to take my monthly salary and convert it to gold every month (I am moving back). Now I have to go through the banking system there in order to buy gold, which never worked half the time. Taking away this option just shut the door on the Chinese people getting money out of the country and giving more power to the banks and the Party. Just awful. I certainly hope they rethink this (but they probably won't).
  • TheRaveneerTheRaveneer Posts: 109 Bronze ✭✭✭
    Best decision they've made in a year. Of course everything that's happened in the last year has been terrible, hence the stock price. I'd like to think Schiff had something to do with this, letting them know how stupid bitcoin is and the fact that it's going to zero.
  • RocketDogRocketDog Posts: 821 Silver ✭✭✭✭
    @TomSwift Sorry to hear you lost a useful loophole for moving your funds. But for most customers and for the stockholders this was a smart move. I hope you can find some other clever method that works for you. I have heard that China is getting very strict and weird about foreigners living and working in China these days. There is a youtube channel called ADVChina that talks about it a lot.
  • BokshilBokshil Posts: 13 Tin ✭
    edited April 7
    History will prove that this was a costly mistake.

    There are already companies out there that can do what goldmoney is doing now and much more. What do I mean? I'm talking about:
    1. Buying gold, silver, platinum near spot price (and sells)
    2. Recording the ownership into a smart contract on the blockchain (can't be edited/removed/changed)
    3. Physical delivery ON DEMAND.....no if's no but's
    4. Purchases can be funded either in dollars or cryptos (btc, eth, other tokens). Redemptions as well.
    5. No absurd withdrawal limits (have to do kyc obviously, but not so intrusively)
    6. Access to the global 24 hour spot market (none of this "london fix" ancient business...so silly and pointless...what is this, 1976?).

    Goldmoney needs to step up otherwise it will get flushed away with the onslaught of digital currencies and the future. No matter how much you wish it, it isn't going away people. Get your head out of the sand.
  • GoldNRollGoldNRoll Posts: 233 Bronze ✭✭✭
    @Bokshil Can you name those companies? I follow the industry as part of my weekly routine and I didn't spot any competitor.
  • BokshilBokshil Posts: 13 Tin ✭
    Veritaseum. Remember that name. They will put goldmoney AND goldman sachs out of business. How? The magic is you can ask for delivery on demand but the gold/silver isn't "stored" in a vault. Thus no need to trust banksters to "take care" of your gold for you. Title of ownership can be cryptographically proven without a 3rd party. To break that, you need to break the ethereum blockchain. Extremely unlikely. The only risk is with the veritaseum platform itself: you are betting that they will still be in business 10 or 20 years from now. I think they will. Doesn't get any better than that.
  • RocketDogRocketDog Posts: 821 Silver ✭✭✭✭
    Where is the gold/silver if it is not "stored" in a vault. If they are not storing it, how do you know it exists? How do you know they will have it when you demand it?
  • BokshilBokshil Posts: 13 Tin ✭
    edited April 13
    RocketDog said:

    Where is the gold/silver if it is not "stored" in a vault. If they are not storing it, how do you know it exists? How do you know they will have it when you demand it?

    It's the same as what goldmoney is doing now: schiff gold take the "claim" of gold delivery from your goldmoney account and converts this into physical metal delivered to you. The G4S vault don't actually hold maples or american eagles, they hold good delivery bars that can be "converted" into smaller amounts for delivery. With veritaseum for example, you skip the entire vault-holding part and hold a mathematically proven claim against physical gold. As I already said, the question you have to ask yourself is do you trust them to honor the claim? Just like goldmoney and all the other bullion storage companies out there. The difference in this case with smart contracts is the ease and speed of settlement because it doesn't rely on the ancient and slow fiat infrastructure (minutes using cryptos instead of days/weeks using fiat bank transfer). Which, in case you didn't know, is gradually dying away. It's a game changer. Come back to this post 1 year from now and see if I was right.
  • nienie Posts: 160 Bronze ✭✭✭
    edited April 13
    I do not believe that this is a game changer. Believe it or not but I have very good knowledge about IT security. Nearly nobody of us IT security researchers puts his or her money into cryptocurrencies because we do not really believe in the *long* term security of it (at least our stomach tells that). What we believe is that nations like the USA can control the medium with which you pay for items. According to Basel 3 you can still hold Gold as money – this counts for us.
  • GoldNRollGoldNRoll Posts: 233 Bronze ✭✭✭

    About one year ago I did this scheme and I post it here :) I' m not very sure if reedeiming by SchiffGold works as I was describing one year ago. That being that SchiffGold has an account with Goldmoney. Each time a client redeems x grams, x grams are transferred from it's holding to Schiff Gold holding while SchiffGold gives the x grams coin or bar to the client.
    If the client deposits physical, Schiff gets x grams coin or bar in hand and x grams are moved from Schiff holding to the client's holding.

    If deposits >> redemptions, Schiff will have to much bars and coins in hands and it will be short in the holding in GM vault. So bars and coins have to be casted to 400 ounces and sent to GM vaults . Or sent as they are. Or sold on the retail market and buy good delivery bars from bullion banks and ship them to GM vaults.

    If redemptions >> deposits, Schiff will accumulate a lot of gold in holding but it will be short in coins and bars. So coins and bars need to be shipped, or 400 ounces casted to small coins and bars and shipped to Schiff, or buy retail and sell good delivery.

    Schiff acts like a buffer between clients and the big vaults where the gold pools are kept. For now Schiff ships in many countries but the shipping costs are very gigh. If GM will grow into a large international gold depository, GM has to work with more local dealers for physical redemptions and deposits.

    Please correct me if this is not how ShiffGold work with GM.

    I don't understand from where does Veritaseum ship coins and bars to dealers for redemptions.
  • BokshilBokshil Posts: 13 Tin ✭
    nie said:

    I do not believe that this is a game changer. Believe it or not but I have very good knowledge about IT security. Nearly nobody of us IT security researchers puts his or her money into cryptocurrencies because we do not really believe in the *long* term security of it (at least our stomach tells that). What we believe is that nations like the USA can control the medium with which you pay for items. According to Basel 3 you can still hold Gold as money – this counts for us.

    Well, fair enough. I see you don't trust in the long-term viability (or rather security) of cryptos. That's your judgement. We will see in due course how things turn out.

    May I remind you there hasn't been a single case of a blockchain ever been broken onto. Ever. What all those ignorant lamestream media reports go on about are the hacks of the exchanges, not the coins themselves. Did you know that decentralized exchanges are already out there and in use (albeit with low volume)? Eventually those centralized exchanges are going to be as useless as cheques. The uniformed fears surrounding cryptos are mainly ignorance, not because of some fundamental weakness. Because crypto owners are TRULY sovereign, they have to make sure they fully understand how to keep their cryptos safely. Unlike the fiat system where everyone gets a bailout when they screw up. You don't need a bank. You are your own bank. That's why this isn't going away.

    By the way, despite what you might think, I do believe gold (and more importantly silver) has a future alongside crypto currencies. When the next crypto bubble peak comes, I think investors will roll their profits into gold and silver, not fiat money. This capital will stay permanently out of the fiat and banking system. Which is why I believe goldmoney is making a big mistake here. This is a great opportunity for those who can see.
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