Advice On Vaulting

nigelmarkdiasnigelmarkdias Posts: 1,323 Silver ✭✭✭✭
Which is the best Brinks vault to vault my BitGold gold, keeping in mind liquidity?
I am based in Dubai. I understand that Dubai is best for bitcoin. I have been approved for the USD Mastercard.
Please weigh in @ArtMatters @BigD @rohanibuang61
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  • Conno123Conno123 Posts: 81 Copper ✭✭
    edited May 2016
    @nigelmarkdias I have been using 5 different vaults with my GoldMoney account. Loomis UK, Loomis Hong Kong, G4S Hong Kong, Brinks Canada, Brinks Singapore. The Loomis vaults were formerly run by Via Mat but were bought out recently.

    My point is because the future is an unknown I feel diversification is what you should be aiming for. There is no penalty to having a little in all the vaults that BitGold offer considering there is no insurance or storage charges to consider. So diversification feels more the priority for myself as opposed to which one is best. I'm new here but my intention is to do the same with my BitGold deposits.
  • GoldIsCurrencyGoldIsCurrency Posts: 1,820 Gold ✭✭✭✭✭
    @nigelmarkdias I personally prefer Toronto vault as that is where I am located so it feels like the proper choice for me having the comfort in knowing it is so close by. My second vault choice would be Zurich. I think when it comes to vault selection it is a matter of personal preference and I could see most people having their prime vault being located close to the jurisdiction of where they reside.
  • GrandpaBrianGrandpaBrian Posts: 679 Silver ✭✭✭✭
    Some consideration might be given to keeping some of your gold in a vault outside of your home jurisdiction. Especially if your home country has an unstable or corrupt legal or political system.

    Another issue is access. Can you get to the vault? If I were Greek, it would be nice to know that I could drive up to Switzerland in an emergency; something I wouldn't be able to do if all my gold were in Singapore.
  • GoldmattersGoldmatters Posts: 4,073 Admin
    @nigelmarkdias Again, since no one can predict the future, I use every diversification tool possible, so I use ALL the vaults. As @GrandpaBrian mentions, some people purposely use vaults outside of their jurisdictions because of uncertainty in their own country. Others use the vault closest to them for the quickest shipping time if something "happens". As @Conno123 mentions, there is no penalty or fee for having multiple vaults, so why not take advantage? I know that @Roy Sebag has a personal favorite, and it is the Zurich vault. He has talked about the history the Swiss have, and the physicality of the vaults security features. Ultimately though, both founders admit that it doesn't really matter so much about which vault is used, and that it is a matter of personal preference. As an aside, I think that vault choice is a window into ones own psychology and what they are worried about most, and pertains to why they own the gold in the first place :)
  • Conno123Conno123 Posts: 81 Copper ✭✭
    @nigelmarkdias On the subject of risk and the benefits of diversification of storage listen to the man himself in answer to a question he received at the Stockholm presentation last month. The question starts at the 30:00 point. As I said previously, for myself diversifying my holdings to different jurisdictions given current fragile banking system is the priority.

  • 79Au19779Au197 Posts: 4,047 Gold ✭✭✭✭✭
    @nigelmarkdias

    Zurich first

    Dubai last (based on reduced options)
    New York last (based on 1933 gold confiscation)

    All others OK to spread the risk

    I personally am trying to "share the love" across all of the vaults - including Dubai - but excluding New York.

    Zurich may show "pending" longer due to heavy demand
  • IsThisLegitIsThisLegit Posts: 17 Tin ✭
    On the subject of storing your gold in a nearby vault so you could drive up and collect it, how does that work?

    Say, for some reason, that BitGold Inc fails. Poof. It's gone.

    The gold is in a vault (or vaults) in my name and I own it, but how do I get at it? Do I just show up with my passport? As far as I know, I have no record from the vault to confirm my holding - no reference numbers issued by them. I could bring a few printouts from the bitgold site with me, but anyone could type those up.
  • nigelmarkdiasnigelmarkdias Posts: 1,323 Silver ✭✭✭✭
    Thank you, everyone. Excellent input from the community @Melanie.
    @IsThisLegit, @79Au197 @Conno123 @BigD @GrandpaBrian: You have helped me plan my personal vaulting.
    So, is this correct?
    Dubai: Bitcoin deposit. Then withdraw the physical gold ASAP.
    Zurich: For savings.
    New York: For the lowest cost liquefication? The Mastercard that I have is in USD. Will gold in New York City at least shave some fees on the conversion from gold to USD?
  • 79Au19779Au197 Posts: 4,047 Gold ✭✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2016
    @nigelmarkdias

    I "Disagreed" with you based on your assessment of New York. New York is no cheaper than any other vault. Fees for all vaults are the same - 1% in / 1% out. Physical out is additional 0.5g + shipping.

    Loading MasterCard or ACH transfer out is still just the 1%.

    Concerning Dubai - why withdraw ASAP? No need to hurry unless you fear the political stability of Dubai. Anything we should know? (I have gold in the Dubai vault - not from BitCoin)
  • nigelmarkdiasnigelmarkdias Posts: 1,323 Silver ✭✭✭✭
    edited May 2016
    Thanks @79Au197. You are always very helpful, sir.
    As long as the US Navy 5th fleet is based in Bahrain, makes regular ports of call in Jebel Ali and Barack Hussein Obama keeps a carrier strike group in the Arabian Gulf or the Indian Ocean, Dubai is safe. Let's hope we don't need the Indian Navy. :)
  • Bronxgal270Bronxgal270 Posts: 4 Tin ✭
    Great point @IsThisLegit Can anyone of the moderators answer?
  • RocketDogRocketDog Posts: 826 Silver ✭✭✭✭
    I like the strategies I have read here. I have a couple others, and a question.
    I live in USA and I am thinking of keeping New York as a "working vault" where I have the more frequent activity but not a large deposit. I am aware of my government's tendency to steal from its citizens (gold and other) but I feel like I should leave them some gold to find easily , and hope they don't go looking for the rest of my deposits in other vaults. A lot of this depends upon the paper trail that is left by me, and by GoldMoney--what has to be declared etc. Doing most of my transactions in NY also allows me to support local business.
    My next vault is Toronto, it is just over the border and a few hours from where I live. Next I will select vaults strategically, around the globe.
    I am wondering if anyone has noticed any difference in time for transactions to take place? I notice about two days for deposits to clear and a about a day and a half to load the Mastercard (this if from NY, and Toronto).

    @IsThisLegit The vaults print out their records every so often and place copies within the vault. So after the smoke clears, even if digital records are lost, there may be some hope of getting your gold. Roy Sebag used to work in the area of bankruptcies, and supposedly has written up very detailed plans for dissolution of the company and distribution of the gold if it comes to that (I have not read these plans myself but have heard about them.)
    I think my worry would be some government entity declaring that GoldMoney is an illegal form of "funds" or "money" and trying to shut it down on the web and seize the gold themselves.

    @Nigelmarkdias "Go Navy!" glad we could help there. Sorry for the other messes (Iraq for one). Now that Haliburton is moving to Dubai, you'll probably keep that carrier group and get even more "protection". :neutral:
  • MelanieMelanie Posts: 1,045 Gold ✭✭✭✭✭
    @IsThisLegit If you were looking to redeem a 1 kg bar, you would initiate this on the platform and we would contact you to schedule a pick up. In this case, you would need two copies of ID. You cannot go pick it up without scheduling with us, as Brink's will turn you away.
  • GoldmattersGoldmatters Posts: 4,073 Admin
    @RocketDog if you are interested I believe this is the thread you are referring to. If you haven't read it, it's very good....http://community.goldmoney.com/discussion/483/detailed-info-on-bitgold-bankruptcy-and-liquidation#latest
  • R3al_WorldR3al_World Posts: 18 Tin ✭
    How do fellow Canadians feel about the possibility of their government confiscating private gold?
  • powslayerpowslayer Posts: 118 Bronze ✭✭✭
    @R3al_World Im Canadian and I dont worry at all. Im more of an optimist than most gold bugs however.
  • GoldIsCurrencyGoldIsCurrency Posts: 1,820 Gold ✭✭✭✭✭
    @R3al_World I am Canadian and I don't worry about that at all. Canada doesn't roll that way so I store all my gold in the Toronto vault.
  • RocketDogRocketDog Posts: 826 Silver ✭✭✭✭
    @GoldIsCurrency I love my Canadian neighbors more and more every day!
  • RocketDogRocketDog Posts: 826 Silver ✭✭✭✭
    Gonna train to row a sea kayak across Lake Erie in case USA closes the border. (Gotta get my gold!)
  • GoldIsCurrencyGoldIsCurrency Posts: 1,820 Gold ✭✭✭✭✭
    Nice to hear that @RocketDog. Enjoy the kayak ride! ;)
  • 79Au19779Au197 Posts: 4,047 Gold ✭✭✭✭✭
    @RocketDog - it's safer in the vault and more useful …
  • ssmanx1ssmanx1 Posts: 1 Tin ✭
    Why use vaults and not have physical gold or coins sent directly? I'd rather be able to touch and possess than to have in a "vault".
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